On this week's episode, we find out about Club Applebee's and an iconic old family business that shakes us to our CORE. What else is our family not telling us?! Then we get into the topic of the week... SOCIAL EXPERIMENTS! Colleen covers the story of the Three Identical Strangers and Bridget covers The Third Wave. We end with a game of "thing I deserve a medal for" and find out that Colleen was raised in a barn. Do we bring back Dan's Dogs!?!? Coming to a square near you! #MeatyHands
Sources:
Review and subscribe! You can find us on Instagram @Sippinwiththeshannons or send us your stories at Sippinwiththeshannons@gmail.com. Love you, mean it.
On this week's episode, we find out about Club Applebee's and an iconic old family business that shakes us to our CORE. What else is our family not telling us?! Then we get into the topic of the week... SOCIAL EXPERIMENTS! Colleen covers the story of the Three Identical Strangers and Bridget covers The Third Wave. We end with a game of "thing I deserve a medal for" and find out that Colleen was raised in a barn. Do we bring back Dan's Dogs!?!? Coming to a square near you! #MeatyHands
Sources:
Review and subscribe! You can find us on Instagram @Sippinwiththeshannons or send us your stories at Sippinwiththeshannons@gmail.com. Love you, mean it.
bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, boom! Big finish! Or, big start, because we're starting the episode now. Good evening, mortals. Good evening, foolish mortals. No, this actually... No, it'll be past. Yeah, it'll be November. We can't do that. So now we're like thankful or whatever? We're so hashtag grateful for all of you. Mm hmm. I'm very excited for Thanksgiving. I'm not, but that's okay. Why? You don't want What's your beef with fucking Thanksgiving? I have the same beef with Thanksgiving as I do Christmas. Oh my god. Oh lord. We went through it last year. I know, but it's just so Broaden your horizons. I don't fuck with turkey. And I don't fuck with the things in it that make you sleepy. The formaldehyde or whatever. What's the chemical? The one you use on dead bodies. Oh, is that what like, makes it like, dead? Try... Try... tofen? Try tofen? Try... try topafon? I don't know. Whatever, I don't fuck with the chemical that makes you sleepy. I don't like it. Love a mashed potato, though. And I love Auntie Terry's soup, but I know we already talked about that last year. No, you know what it's giving? Science class. Formaldehyde. It's a colorless, highly toxic, inflammable gas at room temperature. Oh. I'm telling you it has to do with the, when you did the, experiments in science class. Did you ever have to dissect a frog? I believe so, yeah. That's cool. Yeah. It wasn't for me, to be totally honest. That wasn't my future. It's just like, really? What did we learn from that? It didn't speak to me. Like, wouldn't we ever need to know the anatomy of a frog? I don't think, well, first of all, I don't think that's the point. I think it's for people who want to do something like that in the future and find that cool. Oh, that's cool. And you go, oh wow, I want to do more of this. And it sparks joy. We just weren't one of those people. Got it. It didn't resonate. Yeah, it didn't sit. It did not sit. The people who are always fainting, though, I'm like, get a grip. No one ever fainted in my classes. You didn't faint? No! I could see you being a fainter. Oh my god, I've never fainted in my I've just fainted, please help me up. No, as someone who absolutely, like, does love attention that way, That's true. That's true. I couldn't want to die. Like, the thought of having a medical emergency in public. In any setting, in front of anybody, makes me want to die. Like choking on a steak teriyaki in the bathroom and I would, I would die in the bathroom. I'm so stubborn. That's so ridiculous. I know it is! I'm so I'm It's my cross to bear. This is self awareness. I just So, no. I I wouldn't I've never fainted. I think I physically have willed myself not to faint. Ever. Have you ever fainted? Uh, I've gotten concussions where I pass out, but not Like, Erin used to faint. She one time fainted in the shower because the shower was too hot and she was dehydrated. Oh, right. Right. So, not anything like that. But the room has gotten dizzy, you know. One of my friends in college, actually passed out in the shower with her boyfriend when she was having sex with him because it was so hot. Oh my god, did she hurt herself? No, but it's really funny the idea of being like carried out of the shower in that like ugly state. Oh, and you're just in such a vulnerable position and there's just no way. Yep. Yeah, that's fair. Hi everyone. Hey! Are you here? Hey! How you doing? You with us? No. No. Never. Physically, yes. Spiritually, no. Welcome to this week's episode of Sippin with the Channins. We're cousins and each week we sit down, we sip on some wine, we talk some shit, and we have a good giggle. I'm Bridget Channin. And I'm Colleen Channin. Hey. Hey. I have something to say. Oh my gosh. I came to a discovery. Sure. Yesterday. Okay. I can't update you about my weekend because we already did that, but Did you know? The Muffin Man Did you know the Muffin Man? Did you know that Club Applebees exists? Sorry, I'm gonna need you to say that again A club at Applebees Club Applebees exists I think I'm thinking of something different than what you're thinking Think of Applebees? Yeah Whatever their slogan is, I fucking forget, like Getting good in the neighborhood? Yeah, something like that I don't know, but think about that, but a club A full fucking club inside of the Applebee's. Wait, where? Where is this? So there are, specifically, 66 locations. They are not advertised. Look up the pictures right now of Club Applebee's. You will perish. It's giving, like, college in the early 2000s. Go right to images. What the fuck is this? It's, uh, Applebee's. Go from being neighborhood, neighborhood grill and bar after 10 p. m. turns into nightclubs that closes at 2 a. m. They have karaoke. They have blacklight parties. There's two girls making out in this one. Shit gets crazy at Club Applebee's. But I know this top and I know this top is from 2009. Correct. So here's the thing. I don't think they exist anymore. They do. There's, they're in, guess what state? Florida. Of course. They exist in Florida. But yes, they were popping off more in the early 2000s. But, oh my god, there's so many girls making out on this. I mean, hey, if that's their jam. They're like dancing on tables. I'm not gonna yuck your young. There's an Instagram, they haven't posted since 2018, but there is an Instagram for Club Applebee's. I'm, I'm so shooketh. Girls are making out on top of bars. It is crazy. Yeah, but it is giving, like, there's a guy in an Abercrombie t shirt, there's, like, a peplum top. Like, this is giving early 2000s for sure. Okay, well, they stopped posting in 2018, so that's, that's where my brain is. That's too bad. They should bring that back. I would go for one night and one night only. I'm telling you they still exist in Florida and we will find one. Wow. What a time to be alive. Club Applebee's. They had like 2 like vodka lemonades. Oh my god. Say fucking less. You'd be on the floor getting dragged out of Applebee's. Imagine the walk of shame to walk back to Applebee's the next day or drive back or Uber back or whatever it is and go get your debit card. That you left a tab open in at Applebee's. And there's like families eating mozzarella sticks. Families and grandparents having nice lunches. I think it's something that Chili's should look into. Chili's. Listen to me. I would get fucked up at Chili's. I would get rocked at Chili's. I would love to pussy pop at Chili's. I would love to pussy pop at Chili's. Late night? With some bottomless chips and salsa. On the tables? With the marks. 100%. So I think we're onto something. Mr. Chilly, could we please speak to your dad? We have something to say. Papa Chilly? Papa Chilly! Big Papa Chilly, are you out there? We have a proposition for you. But that's my only update. Uh, I have a wild update for you. I'm very excited actually. Erin texted me earlier today and was like you're not going to believe this. Oh god. On Twitter, X, whatever the hell we're calling it this week, someone posted just a random video of Charlestown in like the 1980s. It's just a random video, there are people walking around, the outfits, the hair, the cars, you can see it all. And Erin was like, I think that's my dad. And in the back of this video is Dan the man, shut the fuck up, in a yellow Adidas t shirt in short shorts. I'm sorry, Dan. I, I texted Aaron and I was like, okay, pop off legs, like the pastiest white legs. It is so my father and it's ridiculous. It's in the back of his head. You never see the front of his face. But it's so clearly my dad. He is standing next to a sign that says Dan's Dogs. Question mark? And so my sister messages my mother and is like, He's standing next to Dan's Dogs. What is that? And my mom goes, Oh, your dad had a hot dog stand. I'm sorry. Your dad had a hot dog stand. Someone sold it to him. Was like, Hey, can you do this? And Uncle Steve, a. k. a. Colleen's father, worked at it. Our dads had a hot dog stand in the 80s, and there is video of it. I'm too stunned to speak right now. How fucking hilarious is that? Erin said she literally was scrolling through Twitter, saw this video, and was like, Oh, this is cool. And as she was watching, it was like, Oh my god, that's my dad. And in the corner, it's like, Dan's dogs, hot dogs, this amount of money. Soda, this amount of money. And they're standing around just hanging. Do you want to see it? Yes, I do. Wait, how has our family never talked about this before? How? Okay. My dad was obsessed with hot dogs his whole ass life. I. E. died at 56. And so I, my father alive, still obsessed with hot dogs, but you know what I mean? We have talked about hot dogs forever. I found the murder weapon. Like we've been talking about this for years. Not one fucking time has anyone been like, Oh yeah. In the eighties, dad owned a hot dog cart with uncle Steve. Your father has. It does make you wonder though, at the same time, what the fuck else aren't they telling us? I mean, no, I'm serious. Yeah. May, 1984, that is my father. That is like so clear for the eighties also. So ready at the end. How respectfully, how did Erin snipe this? Only her. I don't think it's the only way she can. I would, even if it was my dad, I don't even think I would be able to tell That was my dad in the back of his head. Not even his face. Oh, okay. Dan's dogs. Well now I fucking, yeah, that's your dad. By a million. Damn dogs! The pastiest legs! I'm screenshotting this so we can post it. Also, I know where I got my back! That, that's how you know. That back looks fuckin familiar. The more you know. But yeah, our hot, our hot dog dads. Our dads own a hot dog. Our hot dog dads! Watt's T Shirts Made Now. Yes. We're getting Dan's dogs. I actually love that. With hot dog dads. I love that. Yeah. Okay, let me know when. Dan and Steve, burying the lead our whole lives. The thing is, if I asked him, he'd be like, I have no idea. A mix between one, his memory. No, because he was drunk the majority of his life. So was mine. They probably didn't remember because they were booze bags. Blast them both for getting sober. Yeah, love you. How funny is that? That's wild. That just seemed like a whole week. That 30. I was like, what is happening? I knew it had to be something family related, though, the way you said it, though, because your eyes were, like, gleaming, and normally it's just like, I have, like, something to tell you, and it's like, we, like, laugh, but your face was different this time. No, I was excited. I was excited to tell you about that. Dad's hot dogs stand. And also, like, was it successful? I don't know. How long did it go on for? Did they make any money? Obviously not. What kind of people bought their hot dogs? And it's in Childstown. It's right in, it's in a square that I pass every single time I go. It's, it is literally in this, I know exactly where it is. So funny. Where did Dan's Dogs go after that? Where is Dan's Dogs? Could we recreate? Do we recreate Dan's Dogs? We're taking a poll. We're going to ask the people. We can combine our love of the Chili's Nightclub with Dan's Dogs. Say less. But we're going to serve drinks at Dan's Dogs. Wow. Isn't that wild? Gasp. Gasp. Yeah, that's crazy. Can't wait to follow up with my family after this one. My mom's gonna be like, what? No idea. Oh, Lordy. Okay. Do you want to go first or do you want me to go first? I'll go first. Well, we'll just say, we'll preface this. I don't know about hers and she doesn't know about mine. Yeah, so I had a documentary that I was obsessed with. for a while, and you haven't seen it, right? No, so it's, we did social experiments. Yes. Is really the episode. That's all I really know is that it was an experiment. Yeah, that's the only thing I'm saying. And it's one of those things... And I'll talk about it like I won't be like this is the story of because that it's a dead giveaway but also the documentary itself tells it in such a way that it like Doesn't give you all the information at the beginning where you're like, oh, I just want to see how this plays out Like every 10 minutes, it's like a new piece of information and you're like, oh my god. Oh my god So I'm gonna tell the story the same way Okay, I love that. You know what I mean? Yes. I'm very excited. It's a pretty popular documentary, too, so I don't know why I've never seen it. Yeah, it's called Three Identical Strangers. It's on Netflix, right? Yes, no, it's actually on Hulu. Oh, pop off. Yeah, I watched it today for a refresher. I don't believe, I've tried to find some articles that like, tell the story, but it's basically just like, synopsises. Synopsis. Synopsis. Synopsises. Yeah. Of the documentary. Synopsi. Synopsi of the documentary. So like, I don't know where this real story exists. I have no idea. Like, I don't know. Okay. but yeah. That's that about that. So it definitely keeps you on your toes for sure. Alright, I'll sip on my little cocktail over here and lean back. Yeah, have a sip. I want to smile at you. Alright. I can cheers you with my water. Cheers. Get cozy. Okay, here we go. Get cozy, everybody. Sit back, relax, drink some wine, or don't, and just drown out your kids. Pretend they don't exist. Just put in some headphones where you don't have to listen to them. Okay, it's 1980 in New York, and 19 year old Robert Schifran drove from his house in Scarsdale, New York to the Catskills for his first day at Sullivan Community College. So he's a freshman, a newbie in town, First day of college. I'll be calling him Bobby for the rest of this, just so you know. Bobby. 19. Got it. Bobby's off to Sullivan Community College. Get his degree. So he arrives. He's like, all new faces. Like, so excited. But he's shocked to find that everyone already knows him. Or is at least acting like they already know him and they adore him. People are saying welcome back. Girls ran up to him and kissed him. And said like, so happy to see you. So happy you're here. And they all seemed pleasantly surprised? Question mark? Are they calling him Bobby? No, they're just like acting as if they know. But it's also on the line of being like, oh, maybe they're just friendly? Like, oh, so nice to see you. You know what I mean? Like, well, no, no girls are out here kissing men being like, I mean, he's never been to college. So he's like, maybe this is college. Like he doesn't under, he's not, it's giving when she's the man and her brother comes back and everyone's talking to him. Like a hundred percent. That's what the mind is. Okay, great. So he's like, okay, what the fuck? So he's just kind of wandering around and like confusion, but also like, okay, cool. Like big man on campus. Hey, like say less until finally a student named Michael dominates approaches him. He becomes relevant, don't worry. He stares in bewilderment at Bobby, and all he says is, Were you adopted? That's it. Imagine your first day of college. You just arrive and this is happening to you and someone's like, Hey, were you adopted? That would freak me out a little bit. So Bobby replies, Uh, yeah. And then Michael yelled, Michael yells back to him. Well, I do believe that you have a twin. That's his first 20 minutes of college. That's so. Wild. From the point of being dropped off. Got it. So this man, Michael, was actually a friend of this other guy named Edward Galland. And he had dropped out of Sullivan Community College the year before. Eddie did. Oh, okay. I'm gonna call him Eddie Bobby and Eddie. Bobby and Eddie. Bobby shows up. Guess, is he also 19? By any chance? Maybe! So Michael's like, I know Eddie, like, you guys look exactly the same. and so everyone's saying like, welcome back, I'm happy to see you, because Eddie had dropped out the previous year. And so they were under the understanding that he wasn't coming back. Yeah, he wasn't. Right. So he had known that Eddie was adopted, Michael did, so he immediately was like, we gotta call him, right fucking now. So they find the nearest payphone, there's a clip in the documentary of them shoving themselves into the payphone and they're frantically like grabbing quarters and like trying to get in the payphone as soon as possible because they're like hyped up, they're like what the fuck is going on, you have a twin. They ring Eddie and Bobby is absolutely stunned because he hears a voice completely identical to his, to his own. He's like, hello. So he's like, okay, well, I got to meet this guy. I got to see it for myself. So like, let's go see brother Eddie brother, quote unquote, Eddie. Right. So they get in the car, which in the documentary, they say that the car's name was the old bitch. So they literally go, so we get in the old bitch. That's amazing. And they drive out to Hyde Park, Long Island, where he lives at the time with his. Adoptive parents. Gotcha. They drive all day and all night, so they don't show up until like 2 a. m. And at 2 a. m. they're like running to the door and they're pounding, pounding on the door. Oh my like, shut the fuck up, it's the middle of the night. 100%. so the door opens and Bobby sees his own face looking back at him. That is so, imagine how surreal, like a true out of body experience that must be. Yeah, no, 100%. And there's another clip of them. Almost like mirroring, like they were standing across from each other. And they're like, what? I mean, yeah. Yeah, there's a picture of them, the two of them on their first meeting. If you just look them up, like by name, this one. Holy shit. So they're like, oh my God, right across from each other. They have the exact same facial features, the same heavy builds. Darker complexions, black curly hair, and they have the same birthday, the 12th of July, 1961. I thought you were going to be like, October 11th, or is it October 12th? You were born on October 11th? Yeah. Yeah. I had to like say it in their accent to really feel it. It's a really good character. So yeah, they look completely identical and he says, and I quote, it was like everything faded away and it was just me and Eddie. Oh, besties for the resties. Right? But he would soon discover If one of them Okay, great. No, I'm just kidding. Colleen! I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. but he would soon discover it wasn't just the two of them. Okay. Well, it is three identical strangers, so I would assume there are triplets. Involved. Correct. I buried the lead there. That's why I didn't want to tell you the title. Because it gave it away. Okay. Great. No, I'm just kidding. Anyone with a brain could have figured it out. It's okay. I'm not mad. So the news is spreading like fucking wildfire, right? Just about the two of them. It's on every newspaper, it's being covered by reporters on TV, it's everywhere. So much so, that a few months later, after this, the twins find each other, the quote unquote twins. A woman is watching the news, in a photo, oh sorry, I put watching the news, she's not watching the news, she's actually reading the newspaper. And, two, a photo of two men jump out at her, but not their faces, she recognizes the hands. And she goes, oh wow, that looks like my friend David's hands, they have these like, super, like, meaty. Thick hands. Love that. I was gonna say, are you turned on? No, I'm so attracted to them. Most, I've seen video clips of them like in, interviews that they got, they got charisma. I'll tell you that they have BDE. They have Riz. Yes. Okay. And I'll make you watch. So you'll see. Okay. Um,, so she recognizes the hands and she's like, Oh, wow, that looks like David. And then she follows it and she realizes that she's staring at the face of her friend David. And then she's like, Oh, okay, and so she reads it and it's like, oh, twins find each other, but she expects the article to be... Something David did like she expected that to be David, right? So then she's like well, I guess I'll call him. So she calls him up and says like a brother David I think you need to see this So David Kelman, he's got to also be in New York, right? Yes. So at the time he was at Queens College Imagine if they all went to they all showed up That would have been wild. So he sees the news story after he speaks with his friend and He recognizes obviously his face and he's like, what the fuck, that's also my face. He finds a phone book and he contacts everyone, like the last names of everyone that's in the article. He finally gets in touch with Eddie's mother and he said something along the lines of like, So, this is gonna sound crazy, but like, I think I might be the third. And he says that he hears Eddie's mother drop the phone. And all he heard was, Oh my god, they're coming out of the woodwork. Imagine you as a parent though, when your child, you find, has two other whole ass siblings that look exactly the same. So the parents don't know they're separated. No, I'll get into it. So David Kellman, Eddie Galland, and Bobby Shafran were born to a teenage girl on July 12th, 1961 at Hillside Hospital in Glen Oaks, New York. Six months later, they were split up by the adoption agency, Louise Wise Services, which was an adoption agency specifically for Jewish services. So it was just primarily for the Jewish people. the boys were all raised within a hundred miles of each other and none of the parents knew at all that they had any other siblings. Wow, that's so close, like, that is, we could bump into a mall, you know what I mean, that's so close. And they're the same exact age, even sports, like how did you not come in? And I'll get into that too. They did all the same things. But anyway, we'll get into that. But for now, let's talk about them. The happy things. Yes. So they're thrilled, right? The news was popping off before, now that it's on fucking fire. Right. They jump into sibling mode, like, right off the bat. They act like they've known each other their entire lives. They do not miss a beat. There was an aunt in the documentary that was like, they were literally rolling around on the floor with each other, like, so happy the minute they met. It was as if they legitimately knew each other. Oh, that's so sweet. And even though they grew up separately, they have all of the same, like, super eerie similarities. Hmm. David said, and I quote, We were sort of falling in love. It was like, you like this thing? I love that. There was definitely a desire to like the same things and to be the same. Hmm. Bizarre coincidences, like, they did the same, like, wrestling, same techniques. they lost their virginities at the same time, like the same month. Yeah, they have the same birthmarks. Yeah, okay. Identical IQ. We all have an IQ of 148. They have the same mannerisms, they like the same foods, the same types of women, and they smoke the same type of cigarettes. Wow. Yeah, so in an interview they're like, yes. They answer at the exact same time, they talk over each other. It's, they're dressed the exact same. It is so creepy, but they're all so handsome. All right, Colleen. I'm just saying. Simmer down. No, I'm serious. I'll make you look after and then you'll be like, Oh, I get it. So it's making national news. They are, everyone knows who they are. They are so famous at this point. So then they decided to move in to New York together in Manhattan. Oh my gosh. They get a triple decker. Holy shit. And each one has a four. Oh my God. How fun. That's how fucking famous they are. How fun! So they were three single brothers in the midst of the 80s in New York. Yeah, I mean So like, Studio 54. Yeah, for real. They Talk about club Applebee's. In the documentary they were like, yeah, we weren't well. Like, they were like, if someone goes six strokes and rock and roll, like, they were fucking wild. They were popping off. Yeah. And they had women that they were friends with pop up and they were like, you everyone knew who they were. Yeah. Which is crazy. Yeah. So not only were they like single famous triplets, they were also like super handsome and charismatic so it really worked for them. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So one of the girls in the documentary said that it was like the bachelor pad of all bachelor pads ever because it was times three. So then they're like, all right, what's next? And they open up a restaurant in manhattan called triplets And they opened that in 1980 Mmm. Mm hmm. Okay. Cool. It was wildly successful. They did over one million in the first year. Holy crap. Yeah. That's a lot of money. But people came for them. They didn't really come for the food. I know, but still. Who cares what they're coming for? Million bucks? In the 80s? Yeah. Jesus. In one year. I saw, again, another clip, because I keep referring back to the documentary, but in the documentary they, do a clip of the restaurant and it's literally like full club. Like it's not a full fancy restaurant. It's literally the three of them like dancing around each other and just like so sweaty. That sounds so fun. Right? I want to go. It's closed. Sorry. But we'll get there. Okay. As their fame grew, they even had a cameo in the Madonna film, Desperately Seeking Susan. Hmm. Familiar or no? No, I'm not. It's old as fuck. But they have a cameo in it and they're like ogling, I think it's like in this scene Madonna jumps out of like a convertible and she walks into an apartment and the three of them are just like on a stoop smiling at her. Hmm. Mm hmm. I guess the director saw them in the street and was like, You're the guys, you're in my movie. Like, they were filming on the street that day. Oh, wow. Mm hmm. So that all happens, and then they settle, and they get married, and they grow older, and they have families of their own. They all get married and have kids. Every single one of them. Oh, we're fast forwarding. Yeah, for a hot minute. But we're gonna go back. But just know that, like, they proceed with normal life. Okay. I'm happy to hear that. Thank you. There is a section where they try to seek out their birth mother, but she, like, wasn't great. Gotcha. We don't love her. she was definitely like a drinker, mental health issues, and they already had families of their own, so they like really were like no love lost there. We're good. Yeah, we have each other. It's all good. Yeah. Yep. I do believe that they like met at a bar and they just were like, eh, bad taste in my mouth kind of thing. Right. and their childhoods before that obviously were very different. Bobby's family were super prosperous. I think his dad was like a doctor, I believe. Eddie had grown up in middle class and then David's lived in like blue collar working class in Queens. And they all had adopted sisters who were the exact same age. What? And they were older. Younger? Older? All three were were two years older. So like at the time they were 19, all of their adopted sisters were 21. Wow. That's so interesting. So obviously their parents were all kind of like, what the fuck? But I don't know how to explain like their direct feelings, but they went to the agency like through back through to figure out like what, how this happened, why this happened. so they went to organize a meeting at Louise Wise Agency. and all of the officials that were there, that had worked there, they were like, we need to... Discuss. So, the reasoning that they said that they didn't place all the children together because it was kind of hard to place three at one time, but, one of the dads, I can't remember which one, was absolutely livid and he was like, I would have taken all three of them, no questions asked. Yeah. Which is super sad. Like, that's so upsetting. And he was like, how'd I know when I would have taken all three? Well, you don't normally separate family for that exact reason. Correct. But I think that they thought maybe, like, they'd get away with it if it was, like, they were so little. Hmm. Whatever. So the parents leave the agency, they're kind of rattled about it, but then Eddie's father forgot his umbrella. So he went back in to get it. And he walked into the room to see all of the officials from Louie's Wise Agency opening a bottle of champagne and toasting to each other as if they had gotten away with something and completely dodged a bullet. They were cheersing. Why? That he doesn't know, but he remembers thinking it was weird. Like he just went in to get his umbrella he left behind. Yeah, why the hell would they be? He was like, hmm, okay, kinda sus. So they're kinda like, whatever, it is what it is, they found each other now. Fuck these people, we're over it. Yeah. Now this is when things get a little wonky and things come to light. Okay. Upon further investigation, they find out that all of the infants had been intentionally separated when they were six months old, and they purposely replaced, into different families. So that's why they had the one blue collar, one was middle class, one was more affluent, I guess you could say. Yeah. And they were part of a study done by these psychiatrists, these fuckers. Peter Neubauer and Viola Bernard, and it, they were underneath the Jewish Board of Guardians, so the Jewish Board of Guardians and Louise Wise Agency were like in cahoots. I'm sorry, and the purpose of this is what it, I mean to, to separate young babies, these aren't Test objects. They're human beings. Yeah, they're not lab rats. So I don't really get what they get out of it. Like, what's the point? So the whole point is that they wanted to, like, uncover any sort of kind of nature versus nurture. Like, the influences of genes. Well, fu Versus the environment. I hate it. In the children's upbringing, so obviously their mom had mental health issues, right? Right. Or they assumed, they wanted to know if the turnout of these babies would... If that, say that mental illness, which resonates, or if that would just disregard because... Right. Right. So, they also were, upon thinking about it, they really tried to assess, like, you know, their childhood and stuff, and they realized, oh, we did have visitors. Like, every couple of months. They had investigators come and visit the kids. Parents had no, like, the parents knew that they were visiting, but I think they just thought it was, like, an adoptive check in. Not anything like they never questioned it or asked for anyone's I think that they thought they just assumed they were from just making sure they were They recorded the house was safe or whatever. Yeah, they would interview them. They would sit down with them They recorded them ask them questions. Oh, how how inappropriate And so creepy, so fucking creepy. And when you're little, you obviously don't think anything about it, so they kind of are just like, whatever. So upon, like, they'll unlock that. And they were like, oh yeah, actually now that you mention it, we did have people come in. Oh, I hate that. yeah. So, like, monthly visits, they said. And they were being recorded and all that. And, the parents just thought it was a follow up to the adoption, like a check in. Which, fair enough. Maybe they thought, oh, we're just making sure everything's okay. Like, you would agree with that, I feel like. If you adopt a child and a person from the agency came through, like, every six months, it was like, just check in. Yeah, I mean, it's a great excuse. They clearly knew what they were doing there. Yeah. So, obviously, they're outraged. They're like, okay, we're not fucking lab rats. Right. They are people. Human beings. Yeah. But over time, the differences between all of them became like super apparent and their relationships kind of experienced difficulties in a way, With the boys? Yes. So as they got older, they kind of, not necessarily separated, but their more individualized personalities came out and like their differences, because I think at the beginning they really were like, we are the same, we're the same, and we are simpatico, and this is crazy, and blah blah blah. And then once it kind of like... They kind of outgrew it. The novelty wore off and then they were left with their personalities and quirks and... Correct. Not to say that they were over it. They were over it. But like, you just, you grow old a bit. Right? so Eddie takes a turn. A little bit. He starts acting quite off. Uh, almost manic, if you will. He is, in one clip of the documentary, it's his wife saying he was calling people at like absurd hours of the night that he hasn't spoken to in ten years. Like, he was just... Losing it a little bit. Yes. Yeah. so he was diagnosed actually with manic depressive disorder because he was super up upright. He was super charismatic. Everyone wanted to be around him. He was super lovable, magnetic, but his low was really, really low. Yeah. Ultimate highs, ultimate lows. Yeah. so, and come to find out that him and his brother, I believe it was, Bobby had actually spent time in a mental institution when they were younger. So again, coming to be that nature vs. nurture thing, their adoptive parents have no Genes are genes. Exactly. So that was the point of the study, right? assuming this would probably came from their unwell mother. Yeah. it didn't stop, necessarily, the genetic things. Can I ask you, I don't know if you know this, Yeah. Did they ever look for their dad? Was it a sperm donor? Like, what, what happened with the father aspect of things? It was given, it was given like, I think it was a prom night situation. Ah. And they just never even, I think she was like, I don't even know where he is. Because, my only point of bringing that up is it's not just the mother, there is a whole other half of them. That needs to be looked into as well. Why would you just use the mom as the example. Yeah, that makes no sense to me I think because And that's a good question, just because I feel like the people at the agency only were in contact with her that they didn't even like consider. They're just like, oh, this woman's unwell, but she's a perfect option for the study because she's unwell. That's insane. Yeah, I know. I agree. But yeah, you know, they never get brought up. They're not a hundred percent of her makeup. That doesn't even make sense. The whole point of the. And at that point, their results wouldn't be valid. Yeah, I'm just using rational thought for irrational people. So please continue. No, that's fair though. That's a good point. But she, the dad, never gets brought up in the documentary at all. Great. he did say it was a prom night, they never spoke or saw each other again. Got it. So who knows if she even knew his name. Who knows. but yeah, so, Eddie's not doing Wild Log, he actually ends up committing suicide in 1995. Oh no, 1995? Oh my god. Yeah, and it was, it was when they had the, the store, the store, they had the restaurant. The restaurant. And he didn't show up for work one day, I think Bobby was doing the back of house, and then he was supposed to do the front of house, he didn't show up, they lived across the street from each other. So he called his wife and was like, Will you just go see if Eddie's car is in the driveway? And she was like, It is! And he was like, Will you go over there and just check? And she Found him. Mhm. Yeah. so really shitty. For sure. and then the restaurant closed like a few years later. I mean, first of all, they say never do business with your family or your friends anyway. They did talk about how that was a huge issue with their relationship. Yeah, when you run a company or do things together, it just makes everything suck. Uh, it builds a lot of resentment from the sounds of it. Oh, that is so, and how can you run triplets without? Yeah. And I think there was one of the brothers. and I apologize, I don't remember which one it was because it's just from the documentary. Kind of took a step back from the restaurant a couple years prior and was kind of like, not to say the secluded one, but like separated himself. Right. So I think he felt a lot of guilt when that happened with Eddie because he was like, I've been so distant for years. If I had stayed around, would it have turned out differently? Yeah, correct. Get it. So, that shitty ass doctor that ran the study. He actually passed away in 2008, and he showed no remorse at all for the experiment. He wouldn't give any information. He didn't give a fuck. He just was like, yeah, I get it. And I have my results, which is what they're not even accurate. Here's the thing. We'll get there. He also revealed that other children had been studied and separated, but they. Have never been revealed because which I'll get into they it's locked. The study is locked. Okay, someone fucking unlock it It's not that difficult You know the government that you always talk about have them go in and take care of the government wall. Why I don't know so The details that they have are super minimal, right? They've been given very little information. They keep trying, they keep calling. They have tried everything in their power to get the results and, like, all the tapes that were recorded of them, all the notes. Yes, babies, all the, yeah. they even tried through an attorney. They got a little bit of access, to some documents from the archive, but it was only on their own, so they can't see any of Eddie's, because Eddie's not alive, and they won't give it to him. so the full study with the results and the findings are under complete lock and key at Yale. They won't be fully published. At Yale? Mm hmm. They won't be fully published or allowed access until 2065. Why? I, I, yeah, I mean, that's Apparently that's a thing. With research studies. Had no idea. Whatever. I don't get the point of it. You can't. But either way, 2065 will be long after anyone in this situation will be, like, they'll all be dead. Right, but one of their kids or their grandkids has to do it. Yeah. Oh no, they can't get it because it's not on them. No, but once it's public and, like, unlocked, I think they can. Okay. I don't think it needs to be related to. I think that they had, the attorney had to fight for just those pieces for them because it was their own. It's information on themselves. Right. So I think they, I don't know what they did. Found a loophole. But just now. Or whatever, yeah. Yeah, so, 2065, we'll be able to, uh, see that shit. today, Bobby's a lawyer. He lives in Brooklyn. David, still lives in New Jersey and he's actually getting a divorce, unfortunately. But he is like a life insurance agent. He's just living. he said that Eddie's wife and his daughter are, super, super close with David's daughter. So they're still in the loop. And the wife is, is on the documentary. She's, it's weird though because when you watch it, you don't realize the third brother's not in it. And like, because they're so, they look so much alike, it's done so well that when they say like he committed suicide, you're like, Oh my God, he hasn't been in this the whole time. It is. It's so good. It's really done well. Right? Right. But yeah, that's the story of the three identical strangers. Holy shit. And obviously it's kind of weird because I can't really talk about the study and like the findings because no one actually fucking knows. It's just the wildness about how that all went down and how it just is. There's no repercussions and The fact that, that happened in general and it's just under the rug. And that there are other kids, there are other people and families, who god only knows how many. So you don't know. Who are doing the same thing. Someone. The thing is, there are other people that were involved in the study, so like the people that went door to door to go in, you know, Yeah! Do the checkups, but they're not speaking up about it, which is the problem. Ugh. So there are people that know more. I hate these people. You're complicit then. Agreed. So they do exist, they are out there, and they're hoping someone will come forward. Someone did come forward, I don't remember the details, but they did say there's probably at least four to eight. People out there that have a, have either a twin or a triplet and they don't know. And It's all New York. People deserve to know their origins and their siblings and their family and their history. Everybody deserves to know that. Correct. Couldn't agree more. but watch the documentary. It's really fucking good. Wow. Definitely going to watch it now. And that's the tea. I'm gonna do a story. Uh, I just googled, like I said, I just googled social experiments and this one experiment has always sat with me because my favorite murder did it, Karen did it, episode 325. And so I watched a documentary called Lesson Plan. It's on Amazon. Okay. It's called The Third Wave. Do you know what this is about? Have you ever heard that? No. I Oh girl. Wait, I might, but I don't know. So, the year is 1967. History teacher Ron Jones is finishing up his first year of teaching. He teaches a bunch of classes, but one of them is a contemporary world history class at Cumberley High School. It's located in Palo Alto, California. This neighborhood is described in the documentary as Leave it to Beaver. It's upper class, white people. Good kids, wealthy neighborhood, nothing bad happens, you know, the classic, the classic, white suburb, you know what I mean? You with me? Yep. Students were more socially aware at this time because if you're thinking about the time, it's moving into the hippie era of the 70s. JFK had actually visited the area and it was like this big patriotic moment for the town. however, he was assassinated and the Vietnam War is going on. So they're very disenchanted by the U. S., by politics, everything going on. There also is a chance that these kids are going to get drafted. There's a movement happening. It ain't it. And they're very active in the community and at school. Okay. Ron Jones is this handsome young teacher, you know the one, we all have one in high school. The students described him as, quote, one of us. He's super innovative, he's someone who didn't, you know, teach at you, he taught with you. He's one of those. He liked to have students look at the whole picture so he didn't come in and say, this is what happened and this is my opinion on it. He really tried to make them see both sides of the coin. So with the Vietnam War. He had every kid write 10 arguments for it and 10 arguments against it and then debate it. So they'd come into class and the, the chairs wouldn't be in rows. They'd be like in a circle. Like he was the cool teacher. Okay. Okay. I'm following. Yeah. He had a really powerful presence in the classroom and he made students feel like. adults. He talked to them instead of at them. You know the whole thing. And they were just fascinated by his way of teaching and they were like, what's gonna come next? What's he gonna do next? So one day in class, a student asked Ron Jones, how German people could have claimed ignorance with the Holocaust. Like, how could they have gone along with it and let Hitler do what he did? How could they let all of this happen? Fair. And not just Germany, but all over the world. Like, how did, how did this fucking happen? And he didn't really know how to answer that. He had no idea. He, not that he had no idea, but he didn't know how to describe it. And so he goes home and he thinks about it. And then he comes up with an idea. A social experiment. They walk into the classroom one day and things are different. The chairs that are in a circle normally are just like, you know, the cool teacher being like whatever, sit where you want, they're in a straight line. Ron, who is normally super smiley, super charismatic, not smiling at all. Super stoic and the students remember because the documentary is the students are in it. They're much older now, but they were like, it was so unnerving. He introduces to the class that there's strength through discipline and he brings up different types of careers like athletes and scientists and ballerinas and all the things that you can do if you're super disciplined and you work hard and you train hard and that's what makes them successful. And he tells the students that they need to sit at attention, feet on the floor, They, some say in front of you, I think it was behind their back and it will help you breathe better and stay focused. And as he walks around the room, they all do it and he starts giving the students critiques on how they're sitting and fixing this and fixing that. And they're all facing ahead, just sitting up straight. And then he has them go outside the classroom and he times them and he's like, go to your seat, sit down quietly, completely in silence. And do it as fast as you can at attention, like don't just sit, but sit like how I just taught you. I don't love those. So they do it. And the first time they're bumping into each other and they're kind of all over the place and they sit down and he says, I think we can do better. I think you can all do better. And so they do it again. And when they come back into the room, a student says, I think we can do better, Ron, because they call him Ron. And so they do it and they keep doing it and keep doing it and he continues to time them until they're doing it super, super fast. He then tells everyone who call him Ron, he is now known as Mr. Jones only. And when he asks a question, you have to stand up next to your desk, raise your hand, and you have to start the answer to the question with Mr. Jones, and you can only answer it in three words or less. Super succinct, straightforward, and he says, at the end of the lesson, he tells them, come in tomorrow, be sitting at attention, silently, with a pencil and a paper. And he genuinely was like, this is gonna be a one day experiment. I'll come in tomorrow, and the jig will be up. Day two. He walks in, they're all sitting at attention, completely silent. And he goes to the board and he's like, well, fuck, now I have to improv. He goes to the board and he writes straight through community. And he brings up how you get more out of things when you do them together rather than working as an individual. And he brings up like people who build houses together and communities that come together for this like greater good, this greater cause. Okay. And so, he says, Let's, let's start chanting because chanting together is really a huge part of community. So they start chanting in unison to the point where they're yelling straight through discipline, straight through community, straight through discipline, straight through community. And they're all stomping and clapping and yelling. But now they're a group calling and a group needs a name. And they need a hand signal. So. Says who? Ron Jones named the group the third wave. This apparently is because sailors said that the most powerful wave when waves are coming is the third. And the most strong and the most powerful are part of the third wave. So with strength and discipline and community, they are the third wave. And their hand signal when they greeted each other was your arm bent at the elbow with your hands Like your fingers curved like a wave. Good board. Like how Alexis holds her arms out. Except you bring it up to your... Yeah, see? You did it right away. Exactly. You bring it up to your shoulder. Okay. Ron then opens his drawer and he sees a bunch of just blank index cards and he gets an idea. He hands them out to all the kids in the class and he says... This is your third wave membership card. He tells them that all the cards will remain blank except for three, which will have an X on them. Those were the most special of the class and their informants. And he went table to table and he told the informants who they were and then they should inform Ron of any time people weren't going along with the experiment. He was shocked when later that day 20 different students were informing on their classmates infractions. Twenty. Okay. Another rule was that you couldn't gather in any group bigger than two people in school, off campus, or at home. And at first they weren't allowed to talk about what they were doing. So they were walking up and down the hallways saluting each other. And other kids are like, what the fuck is going on? Why is there a cult out of this classroom? What is happening? But they won't talk about it. Yeah. So one student, Sherry Towsley, she just didn't feel, she was one of the high achievers. She just didn't feel right about it from the jump. After he passed out the index cards, she stands up and she says to him, ron, why can't we just say what we believe? Why can't we express our real opinions about the third wave? He exiles her to the library for the rest of the semester. Probably getting kicked off the island. So you were either a hundred percent in, in the moment that you even question it, you went to the library. Is this supposed to be like an accurate comparison to like, Literally, like, Auschwitz? That's not Auschwitz, but how these things happen, because that was the initial question. How does Germany live with themselves, essentially, for going along with what happened? Because if you did it, then you were off the island. Right. It's like, how are they a part of this? So she feels so rejected. Of course, she's like an outcast now. She heads the library the librarian at the school is questioning Sherry. She's like, why are you here? It's the middle of class. You're a really good student. What's going on? And Ron had told the students that he had told the entire faculty about what was going on and all the students believed him. Obviously. Why would they question an adult? Correct. So she's like, the librarian must know. But when the librarian keeps getting nosy and just won't let it go, Sherry tells her what's going on. And she tells her about the third wave and the rules and the librarian is so alarmed and is like, none of us know that, first of all. And second of all, she grew up in Nazi Germany. And she's like, this sounds just like that and you can't stand for this type of behavior and you're doing the right thing. And so ironically, without even realizing it, Sherry knew exactly what was going on before the other kids did without understanding it. Imagine being this librarian though and being like, well, this sounds fucking familiar. What the fuck is this? This is high school. I'm a librarian. It's always the fucking librarians. Oh man. They kind of mind their business. So Sherry started to do things in private because she just wanted to do something. She just wanted to stick it to the man, essentially. So she starts hanging up posters all around the school about the third wave and like telling everybody about it and she hangs them up one night and the next day she gets to school I don't, I can't remember if she did it at night or the first thing in the morning, and she's like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a walk around the school and, and see all my good handiwork. Someone had ripped all of them down. He never asked the students to do that. Someone did a sweep of the school without being asked and took down everything that had the third wave on them. Gasp. Secret society. She at one point gets a ladder and starts putting them up high enough where people can't reach them and they still find a way to take most of them down. This girl needs to get a grip though. She also started the breakers. which was a group trying to figure out how to take down the third wave. But, I mean, think about it. She's the smartest girl in her class. She's Hermione Granger. She's like, I'm not going to stand for this. This, this behavior is completely inappropriate. I want to learn. Eh, she's kind of giving... No, no, no. You're being mean. I don't like her. This is wrong. Okay, you're right. It's wrong. Now, this is the third day of the experiment. Okay. Third morning. He starts with 30 students, right? He walks into a classroom on Wednesday with 43 students. Where did they come from? The other students were skipping their normal classes to be a part of the third wave. That's literally weird. On this day, though, he goes... There was no teacher? Like, what the fuck? I mean, it's the 60s. Who the fuck knows? He goes to the board and he writes straight through action. So we now have discipline, community, and action. And he's like, discipline and community are great, but they're nothing without putting it to action. And he gives each of them different jobs. Like, one girl was in charge of making banners about the third wave, and some students were about recruiting other students and making sure they understood the cause, and What the fuck is the cause? That you're disciplined and you're all about community and your passion and you give back and all the stuff. These all sound like buzzwords. Okay, I need you to lean in. Okay, I mean, I am in. I'm locked and loaded. So, then there were people who were bodyguards of the third wave and they weren't allowed to let anyone in the classroom who wasn't a part of the third wave. Okay. These kids took this so seriously and felt so a part of something. That they set up tables in the corridors and were flagging people down in the hallways trying to recruit them. And if they were disinterested, people would get into fistfights. The children, not the children. They saw it as other students didn't get it. They didn't get the purpose. They didn't get that life was bigger than they are. They didn't want to give back. And these kids also, you have to understand, some of them never were in the in crowd. Right. And this is giving them To be a part of something. Yes. They were part of something. And so there was this one student, this, this is like the one student who kills me in the story. He always was alone. He ate alone. He did everything alone. He sat in the same chair in the corner of the classroom alone every day. He didn't have any friends. And one day he followed Ron Jones into the faculty room for just teachers. And one of the teachers says, you can't be in here. You're not a student. And he says, I'm not a student. I'm a bodyguard. And he told Ron that he was worried something was going to happen to him. And he literally stuck to him like glue for this entire thing. Jesus Christ. And the kid, this kid, now has clout. And people, like, know him, and he's like finally in! Oh my god! And at one point, Ron tells this story, which is absolutely insane, that at the same time he taught this others. A class called tech prep, which like someone get a grip about, about these high school classes that you take for extra credit or whatever the hell, get a grip. The students basically kidnap him in that class. They bring him to a dumpster. They put him in the dumpster. This is a teacher and they tell him that we want to be your Gestapo, the car club. They called it, and they were also his bodyguards. Oh my god. And they beat people up who were against the third wave throughout the school, including the school journalist. Like this kid just like trying to do the school paper is getting beat up. This is day three, Colleen! What the fuck is in the water at this fucking school? No, that's the point! It's not about the school! That's the whole point. That's fucking crazy So Ron says some people were just going along with it Because they just felt like they didn't have any other choice because they wanted to get an A some people wanted to be in it to be like in on the fun and Some people were part of it and joined for their salvation and just thought that like It no, it's it like these whole All of their lives changed after this. That's fucking crazy. So, Ron, he also had trials. And so, if you came in in the morning, he would say like, Colleen, stand, and you would stand up. And, He'd say, you were seen by an informant as spending time with someone who wasn't in the third wave. What do you have to say for yourself? And the class would be like, guilty, guilty, and start to chant, and you were exiled to the library. One student, and he's actually on the documentary, he said he walked by a banner that said STD. Strength through discipline. And he made a joke about something like, Oh, does that mean stronger than dirt? Or he was like, make, like, nice one third wave. And he made a joke. And he was with his best friend. Like, of his whole life. And they laughed about it. And he was like, it was such a passive joke. It was such a small comment. The next day in class, he walked in and Ron Jones asked him to stand up and he said, I heard you made a joke about STDs. And he looked down at his best friend and his best friend was facing forward, not smiling, trying not to make eye contact with him. Like, they were all ratting each other out. They had been friends their whole lives. These are kids who go to elementary school, middle school, and high school together. By the end of day three, the principal gave him the third wave salute in the hallway. What? What? What is happening? Day four. He walks in the class, 80 students are waiting for him, completely standing room only. I was going to say, is there capacity? At attention, in silence, people sitting on the floor. Now juniors and seniors are there because I think he was, I saw somewhere freshman then I heard sophomore. So he's the younger kids. Juniors and seniors are there to the point where there are rumors that two to three other schools were debating joining as well and creating their own third wave. Day four. He realizes at this point that it has kind of, too big for his britches. It just had a life of its own. It's gotten way out of control. Things were completely different on this day. Okay. Also, the classroom had been ransacked. What do you mean? Sherry popped off and put a poster on every single desk. I was wondering where that bitch went. Some other kids ripped posters off of the walls and vandalized the room. Gasp. And that's all anyone would talk about on day four is that someone vandalized the third wave room. He turns off the lights, he draws the curtains, and the students are still standing. He exiles a couple of students in front of everyone and to the library, and then he starts talking about pride. And there was just a change in the vibe of this room. And he tells them, this is not a game. This is not just a class. You are a part of something that's happening all across the country. And students and teachers all across the U. S. are joining forces to create a third political party. Tomorrow, they're going to announce who our candidate, who our new leader is. And you're part of this, and we essentially only want the strongest there. Like, are you in or are you out? Now the stakes are really high. And again, think of the politics at the time, the war, the possibility of getting drafted, JFK, the movement, the country. And there's also no internet to fact check him. Oh, so yeah. And so now he gives them this mission that like we are a part of the change in this country as a political party. And it just so happens that a student in the class has a magazine, and on the magazine is this ad that says, quote, the third wave is coming. It had nothing to do with what was going on in the school. It just was mere coincidence. He holds it up and says, is this code? And Ron Jones is like, yes, this is code that it's happening. And so this is their moment. And some students are absolutely fucking terrified and go along with it because they don't know what else to do. Some people think that they've like found their purpose in life. And some people are like, this is wrong. I want no part of this. And so he asked them that. The next day, they all go to assembly hall. It's called H1. They're going to announce the new candidate on TV. Press will be there. And then he just left the entire group there. And one girl gets up and yells, this is wrong. We should not go. And no one joined her. So. Now we've gone from like charismatic beloved teacher to a dictator overnight. He told them also not to tell anyone including their parents that the third wave was coming and that this was a political movement. There was a rumor at one point that a student went to a counselor to explain the third wave and what was going on and the rumor was the counselor ratted the student out to Ron Jones and that person was exiled and they don't want to be exiled. One kid they, he's talking about, he went home. And he's like, I was super animated, like when we sat at dinner, I was super talkative and animated telling them about my day. And my parents noticed I was really quiet, and he said to his parents, I don't think you should go to work tomorrow, and you might want to be sitting at the TV by noon, because something is about to happen. Like, these kids thought some shit was about to go down. So. Some, and I will say, Ron Jones went to the principal before all of this and actually got approval to do this experiment. They, they weren't updating the principal day to day of what was going on, obviously, and he had no idea it escalated so quickly. But also a portion of this is parents called to complain and the principal talked to them off. He was just like, nope, this is a thing we're doing. It's a, it's a super important lesson. See you later. This is also the time of latchkey kids where kids were just left to their own devices. No parent is like, how are you feeling? How is, how is your teacher making you feel? Like no one's doing that. Anyone who listens to my humor understands the concept of a latchkey kid. Yes, absolutely. Day five. This entire thing was five days. I feel like we're at five months. Like this is fucking crazy. It's nuts. And they get to class and they're a bunch of the bodyguards. The Gestapo escort the group to H1. The bouncers. The bouncers. They escort them to H1 where they are to see the newest political candidate from this third party that they have now created. Two girls refuse to go. Everybody else goes. There are 200 students in the room, so we've gone from 30 to 40 to 80 to 200 in five days. Ron hired his friends to be photographers, so it felt real. Oh my god. The bodyguards stayed by the doors. And they had a screen set up. Why, in retrospect, why would this one school? On this particular day? It was this tea yeah, I mean For the country though, if that's really what's happening, why is it happening in your school? I don't think you're I think you're looking at it as an outsider looking in. Right. And you're not in there in the classroom, so I'm not feeling that like powerfulness. I get it. Yes, and getting exiled is like the worst thing that can happen because you're going to fail your class and you don't want to tell your parents. So you go along with it. Or, you've never felt in and now you have a bit of power and you're using it to the highest degree. It's a cult. I mean, there's so many aspects of this. Agreed. I'm just saying, like, it's just crazy. I mean, it's the 60s. They're not thinking like... They're not thinking anything. It's the 60s. So, the room is quiet. And Ron then comes down and he says, Let us show everyone the extent of our training. And they all start to chant in unison, Straight through discipline, Straight through community, Straight through Until they're all yelling, screaming, Stomping together. And they're showing off All of their discipline that they've worked on in the week and then he goes the new candidate will be here like on soon on the TV soon and they put up the screen and it's just snow, back in the day when you couldn't get the right channel. It's just fuzz. He leaves the room and so do the bodyguards and so do the photographers. And they watch, and they sit there, and they wait, and they wait, and they wait, and nothing happens and they started off super excited and then just like a ripple effect of doubt and someone yells no one's coming. Some people panicked. Some people thought they were trapped, like someone locked them in. People were in a whole out panic and Ron turns on the lights and he's in the back. And he comes down, the room is dead silent, and he says this, quote, Listen closely. I have something important to tell you. There is no leader. There is no such thing as a national youth movement called the third wave. You have been used, manipulated, and where are you heading? How far would you have gone? Let me show you your future. And he shows a rally for Hitler. And in front of this entire audience, they watch people chanting in unison, doing salutes to each other, Hitler youth telling on each other, and the absolute horror of the concentration camps and what it led to. And they watch. I mean, can you even fucking imagine? No, I'd be like, oh, I'm fucked. I fucked up. Yeah. And so he ends up apologizing to the students. He tells them he didn't realize it would take on such a life of its own. But that their last lesson on the fifth day is that learning... We are no better or worse than the Germans. We are just like them. People were shook. People wept. Some of them immediately left the room. Some of them couldn't leave, like, wouldn't get up. The kid who was his personal bodyguard... Stop upset. Sobbed. Sobbed, sobbed, sobbed. But... And then you're just like, see you on Monday. Yeah. Bye. Have a good weekend everybody. No homework for you. But I think what's also really powerful about his point is, so some people were like, Oh yeah. I knew what it was all along. Like it was a prank obviously. And like trying to look like they, they were in on it when they absolutely did not know and they were faking it. It's embarrassing. That's part of his point though. You are also to blame if you go along with it and you don't say anything and you don't stand up. You are a part of this. The way he rolled it out was really key too. You know, Hitler or any of these cults we talk about, it's not like, Hey, can everyone take their own lives tomorrow at the same time? It doesn't start like that. It's gradual. That's how it's always done. To the point where you don't realize it. Exactly. And it starts out about community and discipline and we're all in this together until you're sucked in and it's too late and you feel like you can't do anything. And these kids are worried about their grades. They're worried about being exiled. We as human beings so badly want to be part of community. We will do any, we will cross any line given certain circumstances. That's fair. So students are devastated. One student in the documentary said that she is German. And she always judged and felt ashamed by how the Germans reacted with the Holocaust and everything that happened. And she was after this so sick to her stomach of like, how could I have done the same thing without even realizing it? Yeah. They got a ton of complaints, obviously. The administration didn't really like his teaching methods before. Members of the school board were really shook like this one woman's like, I always stuck up for him and we had a long conversation. I was like, there's nothing I could do for you anymore. Like, you've completely crossed the line. Yeah. Students wanted him to stay, but he basically says to them, if I continue to teach here, I'll feel really restricted and I can go somewhere else and teach the way that I want to. He was let go a year after the third wave. He was never allowed to teach history again. Like ever? Anywhere? he teaches, he, well, he was teaching poetry with disabled people and it's actually this really sweet clip in, uh, the documentary. He He had not returned to that school in 40 years and in 2009 they did a reunion With as many students as they could find and Ron and there's one point where a guy in the front says I'd like you guys to look to the back of the room and they're in h1 They're in the assembly room and he's in the back and when they all turn around and they gasp I mean imagine that deja vu of like Oh, what? So one of the women, they get to kind of do a Q and A with him and he sits down in a chair and he's like, this is weird, right? Like he's very aware of, yeah, yeah. How complex he's like some overly intelligent. No, no, no, no, no. And he knew, he knew it got completely out of hand. One of the women asked him, if you were to do this again, would you do it the same way? And he says, absolutely not. He was like, no. It was an error made by a very young teacher. some of the students say it's one of the most important life lessons they've ever been taught. Some cry just talking about it. All of these 40 plus years later, 50 plus years later. They were, It irrevocably changed and it changed the way they saw the world and how they handle certain situations. That's crazy. And one guy said, if we can instead of pointing the finger, turn it back on ourselves and say, this could happen to me, then maybe we can stop things like this happening in the future. Ron wrote a book called The Wave. It right? It's required reading in Israel, Germany, and a number of schools in the U. S. It's been turned into an after school special, which won an Emmy and a bunch of other awards. In 2008, in Germany, they actually turned it into a movie. Oh. What was meant to be a one day exercise turned into one week of terror, and that is the insane story of the third wave experiment. That is crazy. I think... Humans are fucked. Humans are wild. We're so flawed. We're not okay. Yeah, we're not well. We just need very specific things and we, we will go to drastic measures. I will say another thing that really struck me is that Ron himself admitted that he, was like drunk on the power. He was like, at one point, I realized that I really enjoyed it. To have that level of control over people. And he was like, and it scared me. And I realized that both aspects are scary. Yeah, for sure. And the whole like, power tends to corrupt. I mean And absolute power corrupts absolutely. Like Power trade, brother. Yeah. And just those intelligent girls or guys or people who stood up and then were exiled and seen as like the others. But then they feel like they're on the outskirts. Then you have people who normally don't have any power or any the 85, 000th degree. It, it got so out of control so fast. Yeah, that's crazy that that was five days. Five days. Sherry somewhere says it was nine, but everywhere I looked said five. Sherry just is lying. What's your beef with Sherry? I just hate that she was the out like, she should've just followed along and shut up. No, that's the whole point, Colleen! What No, I know, I get it, because if you follow along, then you're like, we're like the Nazis and Hitler. Yeah, the whole point was to teach them how easy it is and then when you, when you're in you're too far in and you feel like you can't do anything and you feel like you can't tell your parents and you can't tell the administration because they're in on it and, but your grades are at stake and it was such a small, small, small. Like all rationales clouded. Yeah, to fit in and to be a part of something bigger than yourself and it all starts that way and then. I don't know. You're part of the away team and you think the aliens are going to come and suck you into space. I don't know. I think about the away team like once a week. They're drinking the fucking Kool Aid. Oh, Joan's down. Those poor people. I know. Anyway, you ready to play a game? Yes. Okay. I have no positive stories. I completely forgot. I'm sorry. It's fine. I'll make sure I do it next week. This game is positive. That's all that matters. Times when I have deserved a medal. Oh, fun! When I get out of bed. That's true. Anytime I put sunblock on my face. Or take a Vitamin. Yes. Yes. Yep. When I wear an actual outfit to the airport and don't look haggard or disheveled. Uh, eh. I had to do it for work recently where I was immediately getting off the plane and going to a meeting and so I wore an outfit and was like, I deserve a runway. I deserve. A standing ovation somewhere? I just, the feeling I have when I get off the airplane, like the way my face feels, I can't even. Yeah, nothing really hits the spot like a full body shower and face wash. Face wash. Face wash when you get to your hotel after traveling. Correct. So you can just kind of like rinse all the crap away. When I parallel park really well. A clean, crisp parallel park. PQs. When I go out night drinking, wake up not hungover. Who is she? Who is she? I could take over the world, honestly. Have you ever had the type of hangover where you wake up and you're like, fuck yes I'm good, and then like two hours later you're like, I'm not good, I'm not, that is the worst, it's like false hope. The late onset hangover. Ugh, that's the worst. It is rude. It is. When I use Prime Day to buy all of my shit on sale, because aka it's free because of girl math. I love girl math. It's free. It's free. I'm sorry, I don't make the rules. It's fucking free. When I go out to a restaurant and I pay the bill with my credit card, I add tip and then divide everyone evenly and it actually makes sense and I don't have to look over it three or four times. I'm sorry. You can call me Albert Einstein. Thank you. Shut the fuck up. When I do my liquid eyeliner perfectly on both eyes, because my lids are different sizes. Are they? Yeah. Okay. Not my eyes, but my lids are different sizes. So one needs a little bit more than the other. And when my eyes look even... Whoo wee! It's over for you bitches. You can call me Mrs. President. When I kill a bug in my house and yell out I am the backbone of this household. When I kill a bug She is that bitch when she crunches. Something comes over me where I'm like I can do fucking anything. I could run through this wall. Do you know what I mean? Yes, I know what you mean. I do, I do. I've killed a spider or two. Who kills the bugs in your house? Me. You do? Yeah. Peony yells. Our neighbors definitely think we're unwell. Like, unwell. To follow up on that, when I throw away a dead bird, this is a callback, and if you don't understand this, I can't help you. That is as clean as I can make it. When I throw out a dead bird. Period. And that's on. Period. When it's the weekend and I cook versus ordering out. Oh yeah. Health is wealth and she's the wealthiest bitch in town. You just saved 100 so. But here's the thing, something about the crisp Friday afternoon feeling where you're just like It's the freaking weekend and I don't have to cook anymore. I have no limit. And on Saturday when I cook a meal, Whoo! The limit does not exist. I'm gonna buy a flight now because I can afford it because I didn't eat out this one time. I wish the girl mouth works like that for me. It doesn't. Uh, when I pay bills on time. Heating. Electricity. You don't have auto pay? Rent. No, I go in and manually pay it. Oh. Mm hmm. Yeah. I love that for me. I do love that for you. When I get paid before I hit The 50 warning in a bank account, and I specifically wrote this for you. Do you, do you know the feeling? No. I was in the negatives like two weeks ago. No. Yes. No. Yes. I was like, fuck. You need to get a credit card. I do have a credit card. Why aren't you using that so you don't go negative? I forgot. I don't know. I just forgot. Colleen. You pay double with the overdraft fee. I, you know what? No, we're zen today. We're, we're zen and we don't care. And she's a grown ass adult and she's figured the fuck out. And this is not my battle to fight. It was an accident. I got a, it was an automatic payment that like, hit me when I didn't realize it was gonna hit. Sick. My last one is when I put on an outfit, I don't try on anything else and that's what I actually end up wearing for the night. It's just, it works. This is borderline impossible. I can count on one hand the amount of time it happens. Agreed. But when you put that on and it fits... If it fits, it sits. it's amazing. It's such a great feeling. I don't have to work hard for this. I'm not gonna be late. I can like sit and have a bev. Maybe watch some TV before I go out. And you'll feel comfortable. What a dream! I think it's important to have like that one outfit that you know. So if you're in a rush, Absolutely. Every girl, every person deserves to have multiple outfits. Like your go to work outfit, your go to going out outfit, and your go to like being around family outfit. Okay. Yeah. We all, we all need like three or four staples. A staple that you just know works. Your comfiest cozy one when you want to have like a nice bed set. We all need a few. For sure. I agree. When you put the cart back at the grocery store. That's what everyone should be doing, Colleen. Yeah, you deserve a medal for that. Yeah. Uh, okay. Sure. I will say I really enjoy when you're searching for a new show and you find one right away and you don't search for like 45 minutes and you're like, finally give up. Never happens, but when it does, Manifest it. Metal. Someone get her a metal. Someone get this bitch a metal. Alright, ready to wrap it up? Uh huh. Stop doing that. Okay, guys, I gotta say, this is the second time Colleen has been doing something and has eaten a piece of paper in front of me and is gonna spit it out on the floor. Ugh! Gross! What are you doing? You're an animal. Were you raised in a barn? Yeah. Anyway. Anywho. We love you and we hope you have a wonderful week. Love you and I hope you do something that you deserve a medal for. Love you, mean it. Gold star. Love you, mean it. Bye! Bye!
Bridget:This podcast was produced by me. Bridget, Shannon. Music is written and performed by Matt You can find his band super Stoker anywhere you listen to music.